In the second part of his interview with PakPassion.net, the spin legend Saqlain Mushtaq speaks of his disappointment at his curtailed career, his views on spin kings Muralitharan and Shane Warne and his yearning to help shape the future of Pakistani cricket.
By Pakpassion Staff (11th February 2012)
PakPassion.net: When your international career finished, did you think there was ever a time when you could go back and restart your international career ? or did you think it ended at the right time because of the injuries?
Saqlain Mushtaq: No, Sajid. Whenever someone asks me this question, I say that?s what makes me feel upset. If Pakistan win, I get upset that I?m not there. If we lose, I get upset because of the loss. So I get upset in both situations.
Whenever there?s a game, I watch it [for a while], then I go out somewhere and then I come back and watch it again - I don?t watch the whole game nowadays because whatever happens, I feel upset and I take it to my heart ? then I can?t take it. So what I do is I just go away and later ask someone what happened [in the match]. I get upset- why? Because, cricket is still in me! I can?t play at the top level but cricket is still in me.
I know physically I can?t play international cricket. I never said that I?ve retired. When I got injured, I tried but the lack of response that I got from the Pakistan Cricket Board ? I decided not to go back [because of their response]. They never called me; they never asked me how I was. They never gave me a courtesy call. They never spent a single penny on me. They never thought to train me or help me to get myself fit. They never asked me actually. Because of the treatment they gave to me and the way they responded, I left my country and came here.
I never said that I'm retired. I am saying these things because I am really emotional. I've never said that before. I don?t want anyone to be treated like this. That?s what I am saying now - Cricket is still a part of me and I never took retirement.
PakPassion.net: You made your international debut at a young age. At what age do you feel a spinner is at his peak when he is at the top of his game and has all the necessary experience?
Saqlain Mushtaq: I think after 27 or 28, a spinner is at his peak. You know as I always say in URDU, when you?re young, you play with ?josh? ? I don?t know what it?s called in English.
PakPassion.net: It?s passion, isn?t it?
Saqlain Mushtaq: Passion ? yes okay. When you?re young, you play with ?josh?. When you are 29, 30, 31 or 32, then you get the ?hosh?!
PakPassion.net: So you play with your brain then? [laughs]
Saqlain Mushtaq: Yes - first ?josh?, then ?hosh?. When you play with ?hosh?, then you get to know how to enjoy your game ? then you get to know how to play your cards. Before that, you just play with your ?josh? [passion] ? sometimes you put your cards on the table before [the right] time. Sometimes you show all your tricks before time and sometimes you don?t show them at all. You don?t know how to beat the batsmen. You just play with the ?josh? [passion] and you don?t read the game, you don?t read the body language of the players. You don?t read the attitude. You don?t know how to play the game. You don?t know how to come out of a situation. You just play with your passion and you need passion, but you do need some ?hosh? as well.
PakPassion.net: Danish Kaneria is a leg-spinner who has represented Pakistan for many years. He never seemed to establish himself though. He seemed to have one good match followed by a poor one. There was no consistency there. What do you make of Danish Kaneria?s bowling?
Saqlain Mushtaq: To play at the highest level and to give your hundred per cent, you have to have a proper set-up. If you see Murali or Shane Warne or Kumble, see how many captains they had ? see how many captains they played under.
Warne played when Mark Taylor was the captain, then Steve Waugh and Ricky Ponting. He played mostly under Mark Taylor and Steve Waugh. And even the management he played under was probably one or may be two different management set ups.
In Pakistan, Danish Kaneria played under Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis, Saeed Anwar, Moin Khan, Rashid Latif, Shoaib Malik, Salman Butt, Younis Khan ? probably ten captains!
You can?t perform in this case. The management changed, the Board as well. Danish had so much potential - I don?t blame him, I blame the system.
A few captains are positive, some captains are natural, some captains are just negative. All captains have their own theories or tactics. I think we can?t blame Danish Kaneria. This happened with me as well, actually. I thank God for giving me so much, but if you see my era - when I joined the Pakistan team, Rameez Raja was captain for one series and then they dropped him. Then Aamir Sohail came and they finished him, and then I think Wasim Akram came who was there for two years and they dropped him or sacked him ? whatever, I don?t know!
Then Moin Khan became captain ? and then Wasim Akram came back again! From there on ? Mohammad Yousuf, Inzamam, Saeed Anwar, so I played under eight or nine captains as well. Luckily, ALLAH gave me so much and I played well in that era. But it?s hard ? it?s very difficult to play like that. The captain and the player share a relationship ? a player should know how positive his captain is, how much the captain believes in him and the captain gives the license to the bowler to take risk, and when to play positive cricket and when to play defensive cricket.
PakPassion.net: Abdur Rehman has come into the team at a late stage and he has experience in English Club Cricket and Domestic Cricket as well. What do you make of him in terms of his bowling abilities?
Saqlain Mushtaq: He is a very good bowler and is very useful. He has a vast amount of experience like you mentioned ? he is a very good player for Pakistan and I think they should use him more and more in all forms of cricket. I believe that when we play for Pakistan, we play for winning and not to rebuild!
I feel sorry when people say that it's a young team and we are rebuilding. No, we are playing for our country, our nation. We are not playing for rebuilding, we are playing for a win. To win, we can use any player as age does not matter.
I think we should think in that way. If you want to rebuild then you should work on the youth or Pakistan "A" (the juniors) teams, but also, you have to train them, groom them, and they should play First-class cricket and tour with Pakistan "A" or the juniors tour all around the world to gain experience. Rebuild from there and when we think that the player is ready to play for Pakistan (and he can perform on a top-level), then give him the opportunity to play cricket. We are playing to win and not to rebuild.
PakPassion.net: Shane Warne and Muttiah Muralitharan, two great spinners who you have played against. It?s a difficult question and people struggle to answer this but who in your opinion was the better bowler?
Saqlain Mushtaq: Have you seen the record of Shane Warne and Muralitharan? What does the record say?
PakPassion.net: Murali got more wickets didn't he?
Saqlain Mushtaq: That's it. Both are different bowlers but the records show that Murali is the best. That's it. I played Test cricket but nobody can say to me that I am better than Murali or Shane Warne, because their record is better than mine.
Unfortunately I couldn't play long enough because people say if I had played a similar amount of matches, my record could have been better. I say to them, 'Whatever you are saying, this is a myth.' It does not make sense because you have to play, you have to be lucky, you have to be fit, and then you have to perform as well. I am just happy with however much God gave me.
Everybody can claim that if I had played for Pakistan, if I could have played in this many Test matches and that many ODIs, I could have done this [achieved more]. Everyone can claim that but no, the records show that Murali is the best.
Murali, he took wickets everywhere: against India, against Pakistan, against Australia, against England, against everything. I think if you see his Strike Rate and average (in the World Cup, in Twenty20 and in Test cricket), everything is better than Shane Warne. I am not saying I don't like Shane Warne because he is a legend as well. Whatever he has done for his country and for cricket, it's phenomenal. However, the words are small to praise Murali as well but if you see the record, then Muralitharan was a better bowler than Warne.
PakPassion.net: You mentioned that you played under a lot of captains and a few have stated that there were some problems in the dressing room between players. However, it seemed that when Pakistan team went on the pitch, all those problems were forgotten. What was it like to be in that dressing room with so many ex-captains and senior players?
Saqlain Mushtaq: Whenever I used to play for Pakistan the atmosphere in the dressing room was wonderful. We used to have a great time, a lot of laughs, and we used to help each other. Obviously in a family, there are ups and downs and differences in opinion occur. Sometimes a fight can happen but to be honest, we had a great time and it was a great atmosphere. I still wish for that dressing room environment you know and I feel sad that I can't experience that anymore. When I speak to Wasim Akram, Inzamam, Moin Khan and Waqar Younis, I say, 'How about we play some cricket together and get in one dressing room because I want to feel that atmosphere again?'
That was a great atmosphere - we used to laugh and had good fun in the dressing room. We had a few guys (I don't want to mention their names) who were witty and had a good sense of humour. They used to tease each other and used to make everybody laugh. It was wonderful. When we used to go inside, we used to let everything go and as soon as we entered the ground we used to think differently. We used to play and feel differently.
PakPassion.net: The final question is with regards to your future. You have worked with the Australian team, you have worked with New Zealand and you have done coaching stints with Somerset. When will we see Saqlain Mushtaq being utilized to help young Pakistani spinners?
Saqlain Mushtaq: To be honest, that is my dream. The way I used to play cricket with my full passion-I always put my heart, my body and my soul in to that-I want to do the same for my country in coaching. But I don't know. If they will call me.
I would love to go back and serve my country. I am waiting for their call and my heart is there. If somebody suggests to me to call them, they definitely need it because they don't have anyone to look after the youngsters. They don't have anyone who can work with the academy players. They need it, so I don't know why they are not asking me but I am waiting for their call.
I had a great time in Australia when I went there. I go there every year for about 10 days [for the spin week sessions] in Brisbane (Centre of Excellence). It is very well organized and when I see what they are doing for their country, I feel sorry for our youngsters and players because we don't have those kinds of facilities in Pakistan.
PakPassion.net: So if the Pakistan Cricket Board asked you to work with the academy boys or the under 19 team or even the senior squad - you would be ready, able and willing to work with them?
Saqlain Mushtaq: Yes. Definitely. I don't have words to explain but, really, I am keen to go and work with the boys back home - I want to serve my country and I want to payback and work to improve the future of [cricket] for my country.
PakPassion.net: Thank you Saqlain for your time
Saqlain Mushtaq: Thank you.
