In an exclusive and detailed interview with PakPassion.net, Azhar discusses the ups and downs of his international career and presents his views on some prominent Pakistani players, Pakistani cricket as well as on issues of corruption in cricket.
17th December, 2011
Azhar Mahmood impressed one and all when he marked the start of his Test career with an unbeaten 128 against South Africa at his home ground in October 1997.
He was to score two more centuries during the return series the following year, including a career best 163-ball 132 versus a world class bowling attack consisting of Alan Donald, Shaun Pollock and Fanie de Villiers at the intimidating Kingsmead, Durban.
In an exclusive and detailed interview with PakPassion.net, Azhar discusses the ups and downs of his international career and presents his views on some prominent Pakistani players, Pakistani cricket as well as on issues of corruption in cricket.
PakPassion.net: You have had a wonderful season with Kent, with both bat and ball. Is there any particular reasons for this success?
Azhar Mahmood: Alhamdulillah, I have performed very well since joining Kent. I have had been successful this season because I batted at number three. I asked them to send me at number three in one day cricket. They finally listened to me and agreed to send me at number three where I get more time to get in, and get big runs for them. Last year I was the best bowler for them and all of the cricket I played at Kent my performance was good, batting wise and everything else. I didn't get much of an opportunity in Twenty20 as I was batting down the order, but the 2 years prior to that my performance in one-day cricket was good.
PakPassion.net: You played alongside Wahab Riaz at Kent and you obviously helped him a lot. What are your thoughts on his performances for Kent and his future in Pakistan cricket?
Azhar Mahmood: He is a great prospect and an excellent bowler for Pakistan. He has done really well whenever he has played international and county cricket. I don't know why he's been dropped from the Pakistan team and what the reasons are. This has been a problem in Pakistan cricket which has been going on for a long time - if you want to drop someone then at least explain the reasons. This has been going on for sometime but no one is able to understand the people who are running the game in Pakistan, if you aren't playing someone, then tell that person why he's not being played.
You are changing the team without any reason and it causes problems for the captain and players. Pakistan cricket is watched throughout the world and these are the things which puts doubts in player's minds ? they don?t know what their future holds. So these things should not happen.
PakPassion.net: When your statistics are reviewed, one thing that's quite surprising is that you have only played 21 Test matches. Does this statistic surprise and/or frustrate you?
Azhar Mahmood: Absolutely, as people used to recognise me as a test player. In 2001 if you can see my record when I played, my best bowling figures were 4 for 50, in my second last Test match at Lords. In the next match, I just bowled 6-7 overs in the whole Test match. If you see my batting in that game, I scored 37 in a low scoring game at Old Trafford.
After that they told me I am just a one day player, not a Test player. In all of the 21 matches I played, I opened, batted at number 10 and batted in all positions. My batting average is still 30, batting at 7-8.
So if you see the current batsman that are playing now, they have averages of 22, 24, 26, 28 and so on and they are still playing. I am not looking to criticise anyone or any player, but I am just reflecting on the selection process of Pakistan cricket to you, how they sidelined me saying "thank you very much, you are a one day player".
I think it is very frustrating for me when I see my career. Since then, they said my fitness was an issue and everything. Everyone has fitness issues and it's not only me - when you play cricket, you get injured. It?s not about Pakistani players either, it is all over the world that these injuries happen.
I have been playing county cricket since 2002, Alhamdulillah it has been 9 years now. If I had fitness issues then how can I play county cricket which is more demanding than international cricket?
Combining all these things, yes I feel frustrated, but if I had got a proper chance my record would have been different.
PakPassion.net: At one point you were regarded as a future one day captain of Pakistan but then they appointed someone else a captain. What really happened?
Azhar Mahmood: Not just one day, they just said 'future captain'. It was I think 2000/2001 when General Tauqir Zia first said that. I really rate him very highly and respect him a lot. He was a very nice man. During his tenure, Pakistan cricket had become better and better and a lot of good things happened during his tenure. I am extremely thankful to him for even considering me as a future captain. I think this is one of the reasons for that consideration - since I was liked by General Zia and was playing well - it was the reason why some sidelined me by not playing me in Tests and the idea seemed to be to apply so much mental pressure on me that I couldn't perform. So that was the downside, if that wasn't done, then maybe I would still be playing today.
People maybe didn't want me to become captain. I also rejected it at the time - I said to myself it is too early for me, I just want to concentrate on my cricket.
PakPassion.net: Any regrets turning down the captaincy? You might be thinking that if I had taken captaincy at that time I might have a different career?
Azhar Mahmood: Yes, definitely. At the end of the day, if I sit down and think, then I would say that it was my biggest mistake I made at that point in my life. Maybe my career would have been different.
At least if not anything I could have been able to say that I was a former captain of Pakistan! It is not a good thing to say [laughs], but now every person has been captain of Pakistan side. As a player, you get a title of 'Ex-Pakistan Captain' or whatever. In these days, it doesn't make any difference because there are so many ex-captains now. There are so many captains that one is captain for two months, four months and so on, or either all of them want to be Pakistan captain!
Pakistan cricket is not about Pakistan captaincy, it is about Pakistan's honour and respect. These things are more important, Pakistan's captaincy is an honourable thing to do. If not given then it is not an issue but Pakistan's image and Pakistan's respect and Pakistan's name should always be upheld.
PakPassion.net: 1999 World Cup Final, we have heard many stories and you were part of the dressing room at that time and you were one of the main players. What went wrong in the 1999 Final?
Azhar Mahmood: I think the first thing was that there was a big gap after the semi-final. Secondly, it had also rained before the match at Lords and after winning the toss we batted. That was the whole team's decision that we will bat if we win the toss. I think that decision was wrong, I am not criticizing Wasim Akram because it was the whole team's decision that we would bat first and we did that in final too because throughout the tournament we were batting first.
Now because of that everyone is saying why did you bat first after winning the toss as you should have bowled first, but that was a team decision not Wasim's decision alone. We had decided whatever will happen we will bat first because we had a strong bowling line up and there will be scoreboard pressure. I think that was what went wrong against us on that particular day.
Also, if you see the covers, the machine covers at Lords, which is similar to the machine at Edgbaston. When the cover is on the pitch and when it is raining the moisture stays in the wicket, and it helps the ball swing and spin. So if there is moisture then the ball will swing and spin as well.
Also, there were no real partnerships as well. We got a good start, then Saeed [Anwar] got out, and it was a big match, there was a lot of pressure too and everyone's expectations throughout the world. Now people say this happened that happened and so on. I don?t think there was anything malicious or untoward that took place, there was nothing like that.
Look, at the end of the day - when you finish your cricket - what counts? The most is how long you have played for Pakistan or I was part of a World Cup winning team. If you see the 1992 World Cup team, even the likes of Wasim Haider and Iqbal Sikander, their names will last forever as pat of that World Cup winning squad. They came into the team in that tour or World Cup itself, and yet they were not regular members of the Pakistan team but they will always be fondly remembered.
This is the biggest possible achievement in cricket. That one can become a world champion ? nothing can beat that. If you ask me what was your biggest day in your cricketing career, then it would be that day, the 1999 World Cup Final at Lords.
PakPassion.net: You were a part of the 2007 World Cup squad. That World Cup wasn't a terrible one for Pakistan. What went wrong during the tournament?
Azhar Mahmood: Nothing really. I would say preparation wise, we had done well. I wasn't named in the 30 man probables list for that World Cup and it was due to a series of events that I made it to the squad. That year, I had done extremely well playing domestic cricket in Pakistan. I was called into the training camp for the World Cup because the selection of Mohammad Asif and Shoab Akhtar was still up in the air at the time due to their dope tests. The training camp went fine and the preparation for the World Cup was excellent. I was bowling to Abdul Razzaq on the last day of the camp and he got hit with the ball on his pad. He seemed fine after that. When the training camp wrapped up I left for Karachi. Then I got a phone call after a day from the management saying that I had been selected for the World Cup squad. Asif and Shoaib?s situation wasn?t clear and I asked who was I was replacing and was informed that Abdul Razzaq was not going because he was unfit.
It was just a bad day against Ireland. I wasn't supposed to play the match against Ireland. During the team meetings it was decided that we would go in with a spin bowler. But the pitch turned out to be a seam friendly track. Inzamam informed me five minutes before the toss that I would be playing in that match. Our batting lineup really struggled on that pitch, including me - we all got out [cheaply]. The conditions were such ? the ball was seaming and we all got out.
Bowling wise, I was bowling well. An important LBW decision went against us while I was bowling and that was against their main batsman who was standing up to us ? chasing 134 only and we lost the game. You can say that it just wasn?t Allah?s will that we would not win that day.
That loss was bad but the most tragic blow for us during the World Cup was the loss of Bob Woolmer.
PakPassion.net: Bob Woolmer's death must have left the team feeling very sad and shocked. There must have been a lot of confusion around the team as to what had happened and how it happened. How did the team cope with it?
Azhar Mahmood: It was really bad ? our feelings at that time. I recall sitting with Younis Khan in the dressing room after the loss to Ireland. The guys were all very upset and everybody was sitting with their heads down. Bob was fine and came in and tried to raise the guys' spirits saying ?Never mind the loss?. He went around the room speaking with the players and patting them on the back. When he came over to us, Younis asked him how he had felt when his team, South Africa, had missed out during the 1992 and 1999 World Cups when South Africa had lost imporant matches. Bob looked at Younis and said, ?Younis, I feel just as bad today as I did after those matches.? That?s what Younis told me.
We all left for the team hotel afterwards. Everybody went straight to their rooms. The next morning I got a call from my wife. I hadn't even gone downstairs for breakfast because I was still feeling down because of the loss. My wife asked me what was wrong with Bob. I said to her that I didn't know. She said that there was news on the Pakistani channels that Bob Woolmer was not well. I told her I'll go check on him.
I tried going to his room but the security wouldn't even allow us on the floor where his room was. An hour or so later, we were informed that Bob Woolmer had passed away. After that we had a very tough time.
PakPassion.net: How did the players cope with all the pressure from the police and the media that followed Bob Woolmer's death?
Azhar Mahmood: Absolutely, there was tremendous pressure as if we were in jail - we couldn?t go out. We were moved to a different hotel and were kept under watch all the time. We couldn't even leave the hotel for any reason because the press was always there. We were all praying together at one time and that too became an issue. PJ Mir, the media manager at the time, said that we were all too busy praying and had not concentrated on cricket which was total rubbish. There is a time and place for everything and our prayers had no affect on cricket. As Muslims we should be praying at the time of prayer as ALLAH has told us to abandon all worldly work and pray when its prayer time. Being a Muslim himself, PJ Mir should not have made such statements. I even asked him about this when I returned to England and spoke with him.
We can say that whatever happened in the 2007 World Cup was destined to happen. We couldn't change it. It's unfortunate that the final delivery I bowled in my international career was against Ireland. But that could all change. You never know with Pakistan cricket ? I could [laughing] make a comeback!
PakPassion.net: There's a bit of confusion as to what your current status is as an international cricketer. Are you qualified to play for England now and can you still play for Pakistan?
Azhar Mahmood: Yes, I am qualified to play for England now but I can still can play for Pakistan. I can play county cricket in England as a local player or in Pakistan. Last year, I played first class cricket in Pakistan but that was as an overseas player because I am living in England.
I've informed the Board of my situation and told them that I'm always available for Pakistan ? whenever you need me I will play for Pakistan. They wanted me to play in Pakistan as a local player. Now if I go and play domestic cricket in Pakistan I will earn about 30,000 rupees a month which is nothing when you have a family in England.
I said to the Board that if you want me to give up my English qualified satus then ask me to play for Pakistan ? there has got to be give and take. I've never asked for a central contract or a retainer. I am one of those players who has never had a central contract when I played for Pakistan.
Another thing that they hold against me is the fact that I went to play for the ICL in India. I was the only such player who was not a centrally contracted player and I knew it was a good opportunity [to earn money] as I wasn't getting any opportunities in Pakistan so I had to make that decision.
I was subsequently banned by the PCB for playing in the ICL even though I wasn?t centrally contracted. How can you ban someone from playing domestic cricket for playing in the ICL when he isn?t centrally contracted? I was banned for a year. Then all the other banned players who played in the ICL then played for Pakistan again! I was the only person who couldn?t play for Pakistan after this.
PakPassion.net: Speaking of the ICL, Mohammad Sami told me that a lot of the players are still waiting for payments by the ICL. Have you received all of your money?
Azhar Mahmood: No. Every single one who was involved, including umpires but I am not sure about coaches ? they are all owed money - about 25% of the money to every player. Even the English players who were involved said that they hadn?t been paid their last payment of 25%. There was also the prize money of 25% for the last ICL tournament that we won which is still owed to us.
PakPassion.net: In regards to spot fixing allegations that emerged last year where the reputations of players and Pakistani cricket were at stake, how difficult was it for you as an ex-Pakistan player and a county professional?
Azhar Mahmood: Definitely, whatever happened was really bad. Look, I still can?t believe that these boys could do something like this. Mashallah, Salman Butt was educated and all these boys were getting paid well and they had central contracts ? they had everything they needed.
You can see that a mistake has caused so much damage that today the poor souls are sitting in a jail. Any person can become greedy - Hansie Cronje was involved in this as were other cricketers in the world this is why the PCB, the ICC and others should sit down and try and guide the players. I am not referring to just Pakistani players here ? I am talking about every single player who plays cricket. As a player, someone comes and meets you ? you have no idea about his background. He will say I am your fan and here?s a gift for you, etc. Even the ICC have noted this.
The other day I was watching a movie on Hansie Cronje leant to me by my neighbour ? I watched it and then I watched the video on YouTube and got an idea of how he was trapped. Fact is that?s how people get trapped. You have no idea of any one person's greed. Anyone can make another person do things by showing enough money! An error of judgement has been made but the jail sentence is very harsh. To me, as a cricketer, just saying that I cannot play cricket any more would be the end of my professional life so the jail sentence was not needed. Its also bad for their families.
In relation to Pakistani cricket, I would say that we should provide 'protection' to our players such as Wahab Riaz and so on by paying them more ? our board has a lot of money so use it. Also, when our players travel to a tournament, send people with them. Maybe send 4 people from the ICC/ACSU and maybe another 4 from the board ? people who know all these matters, people who can recognize bookies, etc.
As I said, hire these specialists and protect our players and also protect our cricket. This isn?t a duty for Pakistan but for all cricketing nations. I repeat that no one knows what background someone has when they meet you or befriends you. Its upto the ICC to hire these specialists who can recognize bookies etc ? you need a team of such people ? one person won't do. There should be a team of people who should be keeping an eye on who is meeting whom in the team hotel. If there is a suspicious person they recognize, they should let the players/management know.
PakPassion.net: Lets talk a little about Shoaib Akhtar - You are pretty close to him and you have played domestic cricket with him. As you know he missed many games due to various reasons ? how would you summarize his career?
Azhar Mahmood: I've spent a lot of time with Shoaib Akhtar ? he was an asset to Pakistan cricket. His ability was such that within 5-6 overs he could destroy any team. I played with Wasim and Waqar bhai and they took a lot of wickets but with Shoaib, if you see his record you will note that out of the wickets he has taken, most have been in quick succession in 2-3 overs against the likes of Australia or any other team - such was his quality.
As far as his career is concerned, he missed games due to his fitness. His knee was a problem from day one, and then there were issues with his action. As a player he was wonderful and for me, as a friend, he is wonderful!
PakPassion.net: Now something about your own career. You played some great innings ? for example the centuries against South Africa were brilliant ? what are the highest and lowest points of your career?
Azhar Mahmood: When I scored a century on my debut ? that was my highest point. Up until then people thought of me as a bowler but after that they recognized me as an all rounder.
Every time I played under the captaincy of Wasim Akram, it was a high point for me as we won a lot of matches. We had a wonderful team and a wonderful time, Alhamdulillah.
I think the lowest point in my career was when we lost the 1999 World Cup final. That was the day! After that, it was just one match here or there for Pakistan. You know people say about me that I don?t play domestic cricket or don?t do such and such thing. The fact is that I have gone back every year, except this year to play domestic cricket. People keep on insisting that I don?t play domestic cricket ? by the way, tell me this, when has anyone been selected solely based on performances in domestic cricket in Pakistan? Some of the players who don?t play domestic cricket get selected!
This domestic cricket is used as an excuse. Last season, I even spoke with Mohsin Khan who was Chief Selector. Some of them don?t even know the domestic team a player plays for! I am telling you, I spoke to one selector and told him to keep an eye on my performance in the domestic circuit and he said, OK but which team are you playing for! So I said, fine, I am playing for Habib Bank and keep an eye on my performance. I did really well for that team and I asked the selector what do you think? He said I will talk to other selectors and let you know. I never got a chance.
PakPassion.net: You have played domestic cricket in Pakistan and also county cricket, are there any up and coming players from England or Pakistan who have caught your eye?
Azhar Mahmood: There is a lot of talent. I cant really say about Pakistan although there is a lot of talent but one can never know who will get an opportunity! This is the reason in my view that players also suffer a lot. For example, when Wasim Akram left, they said we have found a replacement! In our country players arrive in international cricket from literally nowehere, they are not made by the cricketing structure.
A player like Saqlain Mushtaq ? a legend, has been wasted. If he was from another country, he would have been looked after much better. Its not just Saqlain Mushtaq but others like Mohammed Wasim, Ali Naqvi, Kabir Khan, Shabbir Ahmed or Mohammad Sami.
So many players ; Mohammed Yousuf for example. He holds a record for most runs in a year, breaking Viv Richards record and the next year he is nowhere to be seen. Wasim and Waqar ? even they struggled with the Board towards the end of their glittering careers and those guys were heroes.
Look at Inzamam or even Mushtaq Ahmed ? they all struggled and why? Because of selectors who have played only one Test match in their lives! We don?t have so many heroes but the ones we have, we should have respected them. Even Shahid Afridi and Shoaib Akhtar have both struggled. Shahid Afridi was captain ? he was made to struggle and even Shoaib Malik has had to struggle with the Board. Malik was captain and then dropped ? same with Afridi who was captain in the World Cup and then sidelined. Also Younis Khan ? how many names should I take?
Basically as long as you are their 'Yes man', you stay in the team ? if not, then they say thank you. This should never happen. All I will say is that supporters of Pakistan cricket around the world should make themselves heard if some injustice like this happens as these players are the pride of Pakistan and they need our respect.
PakPassion.net: Misbah-ul-Haq is one-day and Twenty20 captain at the moment, but he's 37 years old. Who will be the next captain in these formats?
Azhar Mahmood: We have an issue in our country, in which we state a player has aged. This happened with me too, people say ?you are thirty and too old! Leave it to the youngsters?. Which youngsters are you talking about? The 33 year-olds who are playing for the first time? They aren't youngsters.
If you want a youngster, you can bring a 19 or 18 year-old, not a 33 or 34 year old. We talk about Misbah, in my opinion if you look at it, he is probably the fittest man in the team.
Misbah's a very clever and understanding captain ? a series hasn't been lost under his captaincy, including against South Africa, he's done very well. Whoever they want to appoint as captain in the future, alongside Misbah they need to initially make that player vice captain.
If you look, on some tours there wasn't even a vice captain announced. The youngsters alongside Misbah, if you want to make them future captains, put them alongside him, so they can learn from Misbah. They can understand some key aspects, including what happens during a game, what happens during a team meeting, how it all works. Whoever is the captain, this is the way it should be.
If you look at the team, say Misbah retires next year, then they should make Shoaib Malik captain, after Misbah. If you look for another player, there doesn't appear to be another one who understands things well.
We talk of youngsters, but they take away some players and then bring them back. Afridi was captain ? they shouldn't have got rid of him, then you bring Misbah in. I've said this before, I was asked about Misbah before the [2011] World Cup on who should be captain, and back than I was quoted as saying Misbah should be captain. A lot of people went to Shahid [Afridi], said a few things, saying ?Azhar said Afridi shouldn't be captain?. I had a reason for saying it ? the reporter I was talking to, I was just chatting with him like a normal person talks to another. What I said was ?The World Cup is a big competition. There will be a lot of pressure on Afridi, and he is a match-winner. Afridi should just concentrate on his game. If he does concentrate on his game, he will win us matches. If he has the pressure of captaincy, then he will have the captaincy, the media pressure, handling the team and also his own performance. There will be so much pressure on him, and it will affect his performance.?
From that point, I said Misbah should be made captain, Misbah is a very sensible individual, whereas Afridi is a little hyper. And he can't control his emotions in the way Misbah can, which is there for all to see.
My view though is that if you made Shahid Afridi captain, then you shouldn't have taken it away from him. Shoaib Malik was also made captain previously although that wasn?t a correct decision at that time. Once the team began to settle and he began to understand how to captain, at that point they got rid of him. That was the biggest blunder there was at that time. Whoever is captain, whether it be Afridi, Misbah, Shoaib Malik, Younis Khan or whether you make a new kid captain, at least give them a proper chance to establish themselves and develop a team under them.
Say here is a team of 20 individuals and pick the best team. Say these 20 people are the Pakistan team, and we will ask you about the results after one year. This is our coach, this is our captain, this is our manager.
I remember there was South African Ghulam [Raja], who was the manager and whenever I saw him I knew he was their [South Africa's] team manager. He was manager during Cronje's time, and is manager to this day ? the person hasn't changed.
With Pakistan, it's another person every tour, with no accountability for anything. This is the Pakistan team, it is not a Lahore team, not a Karachi team and not a Rawalpindi team ? this is the Pakistan team, it is Pakistan's honour. All of these guy's are Pakistan's honour. Pay the players properly and give them protection and ask them to perform. If they then fail to perform having been given a proper chance, then leave them out.
The rest of the world doesn't do it, but in Pakistan one day we have one captain, another day someone else, you can't build teams in this manner.
PakPassion.net: You've recently signed a two-year contract extension with Kent, you're also off to New Zealand very soon to play Twenty20 cricket. What are your plans after cricket? Any thoughts on coaching or academies?
Azhar Mahmood: I did think about a coaching academy in the UK. I've completed my ECB Level 2 coaching and I'm currently hoping to complete my Level 3 but first I have to go to New Zealand, which is going to involve a bit of travelling. I thought about coaching, but I am currently playing cricket which means I don't have the time.
I know people who say I should start coaching, and that my friends can run the academy, but I believe if I do something, then I must be involved in it myself, it's important that we don't have the Azhar Mahmood academy with that being just a name, run by other people. I want as a person to be involved personally. I will put in the effort and try and set up an academy once I have the time Inshallah. This is the plan for the future.
PakPassion.net: Many thanks for your time Azhar and best wishes for the future.
Azhar Mahmood: My pleasure and thanks for the good wishes.
